Democracy is as good as people who participate in it


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Wow, I'm honored, I get a whole post replying to my comment. :-)

Thanks. Now for my reply.

I will start with the last part of your post:
The question that has to be asked however, is can Islam make democracy work?

In short, I will say no. Under Islam, the Koran is the absolute guide to life and the laws therein are the laws of Allah. Any man made laws are a revolt against Allah. Electing others to lead you is also a form of oppression since you are not submitting yourselves to the law of Allah. Look at Qutb and his interpretations. He is not scary because he is a crazy lunatic, but because his interpretations are a logical and well-reasoned extention of the Koran and have a strong historical basis. By definition, Islam has a political component that rules out democracy.

Rummel also makes the same point as I have made in the past, that at least with a democratic process you know the will of the people and so more accurately judge the justification for war.

Rummel though doesn't consider it a democracy until there is a second election. Based on that standard, we have to wait until 2010 to really know the will of the Palestinians.

Here is the problem I have with the democracy theory. Let's take the Hamas victory. We will assume that the election was fair. If they then proceed to create an Islamic republic, what will it look like? Most likely it will be a lot like Iran with all laws based on Sharia, a standard "secular" government, and a religious oversight board. Can you hold elections it that environment? Sure, but by default, Islamic law will limit who can run (At this point Rummel will claim it's no longer a democracy). The result is that a democratically elect government, implements a government that is not democratic by Western standards.

The reason is that you cannot separate a democracy from culture. If a cannabalistic society created a democracy, they will still be cannibals. You can't separate Islam from a democracy since Islam doesn't recognize a realm where man is free to act. Democracy and freedom came about in the West due to an understanding that God has given man certain inalienable rights and governments are instituted to protect those rights. Nothing analagous exists in Islam. In the end, the plan will fail because to create a democracy in a Islamic country will require the people to cease to be muslims. Then of course, the democracy proponents will claim that democracy has never been tried in muslim countries.

As such, it may be wrong, but it isn't denial to think it might.

It is denial because it is an attempt to impose Western norms, which no matter how much some deny it are based on Christianity, on groups of people who have different norms based on Islam. I believe that people are denying the reality that not everyone has the same values. Why do muslims have honor killings? Don't they value their daughters? Or do they value honor more than the lives of their daughters? Those values come from Islam.

Sorry if that is rambling. Thanks again.
 

No worries. It was an interesting comment that is worth thinking about.

I agree with a lot of your thoughts. Indeed, I have a lot of misgivings myself. The real possibility I see with an islamic democracy is the corrosive effect of freedom and materialism have may cause reinterpretations and changes in the islamic faith that may make democracy possible. Once they get a lot of stuff that democracy and capitalism can give them, they may get pulled in.

I am still not sure it is denial (as it hasn't truly been tested), but it certainly is optimistic to think it will work. I don't give it much hope, but at least with places like Iraq that have been under the yoke of a brutal dictator, the people can truly decide their fate, even if they decide badly.